Dr Gyan Sir interview
Hello dear readers, today we have the good fortune of meeting arguably the biggest name in Hindi humour and satire after Harishankar Parsai and Sharad Joshi, so much so that many refer to as the previous three decades of Hindi satire as ‘Gyan Chaturvedi Era’.
Writer of six novels, twelve ‘collected satires’, more than a thousand satirical essays and stories, published columns in most major newspapers, another novel – Tanashah ki premkatha (love story of a Dictator) and eight more collected satires in process of publication.
Prolific writing skills and the hunger to create something different and brilliant have made him a world-renowned writer. He is credited with taking satire out of political background and into daily lives, family ties, markets, human sensibilities and social structures. His new creations are always much awaited, and his previous works have been translated into other languages as well. He has written film scripts as well, few of which are in production phase.
Narak Yatra, his first hindi novel describing a government hospital in a humorous, yet painful way, is one book every medico should read. Its screen version is soon to be released.
He’s won many awards for contribution to hindi literature, including Padma Shree from the Government of India in 2015.
Let us know more…
Lexicon: Was medicine your dream, or your parents’, or was it planning for future that you became a doctor?
Dr Gyan Chaturvedi: Dreams? I’ve never had any ‘dreams’ as such. I have even written about this in a piece titled “jo main nahin ban saka”. At some point in my childhood, I did dream of becoming a magician or an actor or a filmmaker, but since I come from a small village, I had little to no idea about career opportunities. My father was a doctor serving with Madhya Pradesh government. He was intelligent, very well read and also wrote poetry in English. He never forced me to choose a career path, he didn’t even force me to study. When my father passed away, my life, along with my dreams, felt shattered. Then I just drowned myself in studies. I was always good in studies and I enjoyed it. I did my BSc in Biology from Sagar University in Chhattarpur, and got the highest marks combined in biology and maths in first and second year. I was especially good in chemistry and felt that I could be a teacher or a professor. I had distinction in all subjects (unlike now when most kids have 80 to 90% distinction was a big thing then), and I thought of becoming a chemistry professor.
I had seen my father was a doctor for years so there was no novelty factory for me in medicine. I also knew of the expenses involved in becoming a doctor. We had severe financial issues, and my zoology professor had to arrange my fees to be waived off. Despite being the brightest student in college, I could not apply to any Medical college. My principal Mr Ram Mitra Chaturvedi noticed this and enquired about why I was not applying. I told him about my situation in detail. He told me that the best I could do as a Chemistry professor was to reach his own chair. He felt that my academic prowess was meant for something bigger. He suggested that I should become a doctor, as the nation needed more doctors.
I was already on ₹100 monthly scholarship (in an era where a nearby hotel charged ₹50 for a month of breakfast and 2 meals). I just kept studying, and as a topper in BSc I could pick any college as college was decided on merit. I picked the medical college in Rewa, as it was closest to chattarpur. I passed out of my Medical College as a gold medallist in most subjects. For PG admissions there was a merit list which I topped by a margin of more than 200 marks (on aggregate of 4 years of MBBS marks).
In summary, I never dreamed of anything specific, but as the song goes… “main Zindagi ka saath nibhata chala gaya…”. I hardly ever worried about anything, even though there was no smoke involved.
Lexicon: Tell us about your journey as a writer.
Dr Gyan: My maternal grandfather and maternal uncle were bigshot poets in Bundelkhand. At 18 years of age, my maternal uncle was State Poet of Orchha, Madhya Pradesh. I grew up reading their works and their handwritten diaries. I spent my hours and hours with the literature (in an era when summers were bad with less to no electricity). As early as in 6th standard, I got published in Dainik Jagran Jhansi Sunday edition, in the children’s section. My school was in Bhander, and I became famous in the town as a published writer.
In 9th standard, when Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru passed away, we were asked to write an essay on him. Back then, teachers’ feedback could include physical beating, or just a good scolding. My Hindi teacher, Shankar Lal Shukl ji, asked me to read out his note on my essay to the class, which said, “If this work is original, then I can make a prediction today that you will one day become a world-renowned Hindi writer.”
In 10th standard, I got into reading detective novels (we even stole a few from a store), and I wrote two novels about 400 pages long each. They were sold off by my relatives and probably got published under some ghost-writing project. Later in college, I started reading Harishankar Parsai ji, Sharad Joshi ji, Rabindranath Tyagi ji through their columns, and also started reading Krishna Chander Ji, who was a famous storywriter. I was fascinated by all of them.
I delved into satire when I was in 12th standard. While writing satire, I realised that it was what I found most enjoyable and satisfying. It made me feel like I ‘did’ something.
In MBBS second year (1971), my first piece was published in Dharmyug. It used to be a big magazine, and it was a dream to be published in it for established and new writers alike. When getting a ‘letter to editor’ or a corner note getting published in that magazine was considered an achievement, I published on an entire page with my photo. Next 20 years, I never cared about who was reading my work, or what was being discussed about me or if I was being recognised. I was a part of the ‘etcetera’ crowd of writers – the et al part of the list. Then, my motto was “pursue excellence and don’t bother about the success”, as heard in the movie 3 idiots much later.
My love for satire has guided me as a writer. I have kept at it, without caring for criticism, for praise or for awards. I feel I should write so well that people should grab award houses by their collar and question them – “Why isn’t Dr Gyan getting awarded for his good work?”
I feel if I keep on writing well, people will come to interview me – just like you are here.
Lexicon: If not a doctor, then would you have been a writer?
Dr Gyan: I have always loved and enjoyed writing. I’m 72, and have been writing professionally for more than 50 years now. For me, writing is akin to ‘living’, as basic as wanting to eat food. It’s almost an addiction. My medical career was a result of my situation, while career as a writer has been because of my personality. Both are not related.
However, if writing paid well, and I was only a writer, then I would’ve written much more, you know, popular culture English literature. Unfortunately, Hindu literature is not a financially rewarding industry. It is said that it is like ‘opening a laundry shop un a town full of nudists’. I’ve received a lot of praise, readership and love. But the objective number of sales are either not very high, or are not conveyed truthfully by the publishers.
Lexicon: Tell us more about your writing routine and process.
Dr Gyan: Writing is a daily habit of sorts. If I skip even one day because of, you know, life, I feel like I have missed living that day. I feel ‘fulfilled’ when I write. I have given it the sane dedication and love as I have given to medicine.
I have enjoyed writing almost jab se maine hosh sambhala hai. I enjoy it the same, even more today. I write, edit, rewrite every day as Muktibodh has put it, there are three stages of writing. First is the idea, which may cone and go. Second is when you sit down to write, and it must include self-critique, which is what makes you a true writer. You should be willing to reject ideas that don’t feel right. Third stage is completion, when you feel that you have written exactly what you wanted to convey. When the third step is fulfilled, then you feel it is your best work. That’s been my aim in my writing.
Lexicon: How has medicine affected your life and your writing career?
Dr Gyan: Medicine has given me a life of repute and financial stability. It has given me innumerable chances to understand life via my patients’ trust, their illnesses and their stories. It helped me delve deep into depths of characters and traits that my own life didn’t allow me to.
I try to understand my patients and their illnesses and then explain it to them while trying to cure them with utmost care. The characters and stories that I come across have helped me to become a better person and a satirist as well.
Compassion as a medical professional has helped me become a better and more sensitive writer.
Lexicon: Have there been any moments of doubt or regret with respect to medicine? Any bad experiences that you may want to share?
Dr Gyan: I finished my Post-graduation in 1978, and am now a consultant physician. I have never seen my career as a means to earn money. If I was any good, money would follow. Hence, I never felt the need to market myself, to hassle about, to cheat anyone, to do overt advertising. There has been no moment of doubt or regret regarding my profession.
I learn from my juniors, my colleagues, even their mistakes and their behaviour. I try to learn from my nursing staff and my physiotherapist as well. Medicine is as much a science as it is an art. Science part I learn from books and my peers. Art is when I learn from good behaviour shown by others. I combine my passion and profession, and hence I never feel tired even after a busy day. Even with writing, there’s not a hint of tiredness. In fact, one makes me more energetic for the other.
Even as a husband and a father you may have some bad moments, but does one ever feel that life would’ve been better without a wife and children? No! Writing and medicine are such an essential part of my life.
I do hear doctors complaining that there are more litigations, rude patients, political environment, etc. I feel these are mostly bureaucratic issues, and even if a Doctor was sitting on the bureaucratic chair, he’d do the same. My bad experiences have been few and far apart. Perhaps my patients have valued my dedication, my empathy and my hard work. If one gets an old patient, hard of hearing, then the onus is on the doctor to not get irritated with “Hain? Hain?” One needs to be empathetic.
That said, there are rogue humans everywhere, but that doesn’t mean that the profession is bad. It may be politics, emotions, or other reasons behind bad ‘experiences’, and need to be seen in that context only. Competition among peers, medical opinions from WhatsApp University, patients’ foul behaviour these are all challenges. There is still gratitude in this profession. I’ve always thanked God, and Prof Ram Mitr Chaturvedi, for nudging me in the right direction.
Lexicon: What is medicine for you? A profession? A passion? Seva (Means of service)?
Dr Gyan: I would say all three! I am professional about it, as I open my shop (clinic) daily and take care of my customers (patients), address their grievances, and it helps me run my house. Like a good milkman, a good doctor doesn’t dilute his service or product. Just like any other profession, there are certain expectations. Dishonesty and laxity have always acted as a catalyst for failure.
Medicine is different from other professions, and that’s where seva comes in. I tell my juniors that it is God’s blessings that we get paid for caring about others and collecting ‘punya’(goodwill). We get paid for our work, and get blessed for free. ‘Sevabhaav’ (willingness to serve) is a necessity.
Passion creeps into the equation when you strive for patients’ happiness and becoming better yourself. I still study 1-2 hrs daily everyday (though I finished my MD in 1978) from books, my peers and my juniors I learn and I educate.
Lexicon: Tell us the pros and cons of juggling two professions.
Dr Gyan: I have never seen any cons. Though if I have been in just one field, I would have had more time on my hand, and would have indulged in some other hobby, travelled the world, seen dramas, more movies. I like travelling and meeting new people, making friends but two professions meant that I gave less time to friendships than I would have wanted to.
Writing has made me a better doctor, and vice versa. I find writing ideas through my career in medicine. I feel my characters are three-dimensional, even four-dimensional, because of my interactions with a lot of patients.
Now I’m trying to do a lot of things that I missed out on. I travel more now. I spent a lot of time in Europe and USA in past few years. I got Katha samman award in London, and Dhingra foundation award in USA. I loved travelling there, and also realized that India is the best.
Lexicon: How is medicine different now from the start of your career?
Dr Gyan: I entered MBBS in 1969. Schools, society and the medical world was different. There were limited investigations, and not so advanced anyway, hence clinical skills were much more important. I practice cardiology, and back then we had only ECG and Chest X-ray. It was me, my patient and my stethoscope along with my skills. Advanced imaging, hormone panels, etc were not available, at least negligible in smaller cities in India. Now, it’s almost as if you can peep into the body – every nook and corner of it.
I’ve taught a number of PG students who have complimented me over my clinical skills, which I believe are still important. History taking is even more important – 80% of diagnosis is history, 10% is clinical examination, and the rest 10% is verification by investigations.
These days, PG entrances are all about MCQs, hence I do not blame teachers for clinical teaching taking a backseat. Slowly, the charm of ‘deduction and diagnosis’ is fading away. The mindset now is “why invest time and effort when investigations and imaging can do it?”
Students do realize that it harms them. They are intelligent, hardworking, but they need to be guided properly. They need to be told that Hutchison is the most important book! Sound clinical skills give Indian doctors an ‘edge’ over doctors from rest of the world.
You may say that I am an aged, old-school doctor, but I have always felt young in medicine. I always see my patience like a 3rd year post graduate student, like I am learning from the patient. We have to keep studying and updating our skills and knowledge. Probably in our time we have much more exposure to this, because there were less things to discuss, unlike today when there is so many new investigation modalities to know about. Upgrading one’s knowledge should not come only from conferences, which are seen as vacations or medical representatives. It’s about making an effort.
Lexicon: We would like to know your opinion on NEET controversy, reservations in medical field.
Dr Gyan: Any scandal in education field kills a lot a dreams and aspirations. In this NEET scandal, I don’t believe that only a select few are involved, there has to be a nexus behind it. If the IIT entrance exam can be conducted without major issues, then why can’t the medical entrance exam? Even if an independent agency organizes the exam, the top personnel in that agency may be appointed politically, and/or may indulge in corruption if money gets involved.
My daughter, who cracked AIIMS and PGI-Chandigarh pre-PG exams after topping Banaras Hindu University in her MBBS, could not crack Madhya Pradesh pre-PG exa, because of Vyapam scandal back then. I believe the ‘intent’ to conduct fair exams is missing. NEET is no more neat. Such scandals discourage the honest and hard-working youth. With such controversies, we push them towards the belief that corruption and power are the keys to success. What kind of a future generation are we shaping?
As for reservations, I feel it should stop at MBBS, and should not be continued in post-graduation or promotions. MBBS is enough to give you a certain privilege. I agree that the casteism and apartheid still exists, but it is not rampant, and perhaps limited to small and far flung villages. The statements and the belief that so called ‘Brahmins’ and ‘upper castes’ still practice untouchability, is mostly a political weapon. I, being from a Brahmin caste, have also been at the receiving end of the flak. The world has moved far ahead of such things. Whether scandals or unwarranted reservation policy, the country does not deserve doctors of poor quality. I do support reservations in terms of need, like economically backward sections also need such benefits. It’s a complex topic.
Lexicon: What is the most special award bestowed upon you as a writer and a doctor?
Dr Gyan: Difficult to say. Unfortunately, a lot of undeserving people also end up on such award lists. Some awards are as per merit and some awards are also obtained by jugaad.
Strangers from USA, London have awarded me for my work. As a doctor, my patients are the ones who give me the most precious award when they get better. My prize is when people come to me via references from former patients, that I have given them good care.
Similarly with writing, when some reader from Assam, or some IITian, or some youngster, or some 80-years old person calls me even at odd hours in the night, it feels special. One reader called me and said that reading my novel hum na marab made him scared, despite it being a satirical novel, that while the novel made him happy, what would he do when it would finish?
Awards are important, as they tell you that you are being read and recognised as a writer, and are being appreciated as a doctor. Awards should keep you on your toes, that you have to justify them with your behaviour, efforts and your future work.
Lexicon: Any story from your college days that still makes you smile or chuckle?
Dr Gyan: I have used lots of such stories especially in my novel narak yatra. My characters come out of my stories, like the ambulance driver. Yet, these are true characters and not just caricatures of the people I’ve met in life.
I had an RMO named Dr R D Sharma. Once, he picked an ECG to describe to our boss, and said “Sir… myocardial infarction…” and my boss made an angry face, so he changed his answer to “… it is not…” and then added “Atrial fibrillation…” and saw my boss’s face getting angrier and added “…also it is not”. My boss angrily said “Just tell me what is it and not what it is not!”
Lexicon: What are your thoughts on Doctor-patient relationship today?
Dr Gyan: It has definitely become complex. I do not blame doctors for it, because money and marketing has captured every sphere of life, including even religion. The profession has now become about advertising. You cannot commit to a patient “it is nothing serious” because some other Doctor might recommend multiple investigations. Lots of patients come with ‘whole body check-up’ available easily. Now, patients come with so many reports for you to see, and doctors also lean towards it, probably because of fear of litigation. Doctor-rivalry is also an important factor in ruining this relationship. Hospitability has become important.
I’ve very few bad experiences so I’m still very optimistic, but one thing I must say – communication gap between doctor and patient stems from lack of time devotion. So, we need to work on that.
Lexicon: How do you find time for all that you have talked about?
Dr Gyan: I still practice medicine, I also write a lot. My children and family cannot complain as I devote full time to them as well.
It’s all about priorities. For me, my wife and children come first. They also respect my time. There are no communication gaps between us. My second wife is medicine and I usually keep writing on the 3rd priority. But, I feel married to both medicine and writing. I won’t say that one of them is my wife and other is lover. Your wife is also a lover as it is.
My friends complain a lot as I don’t find enough time to meet and chat with them. I don’t attend Doctors’ get-togethers as well. I have had to give up on some hobbies as well, like drama. But, it has always been about priorities.
RAPID-FIRE ROUND
Lexicon: If laughter is the best medicine, which movies would you prescribe?
Dr Gyan: My favourite movies are chalti ka naam gaadi, golmaal (the old one directed by rishikesh Mukherjee) and movies featuring Charlie Chaplin. They do help you forget sorrows, although I believe there is some sadness behind every laughter. So laughter, sorrow and then laughter – it’s a full circle.
Lexicon: Do you think that laughter should be introduced in medical college curriculum? If yes, which subject would it be a part of?
Dr Gyan: If not laughter, then at least literature should be a part of Medical College curriculum. Literature, music, drama – any creative art form – it helps you become a better doctor and human being.
Lexicon: Do you use humour in your medical practice?
Dr Gyan: I don’t ‘joke around’, but I do try to talk in a light way, lovingly – keeping in mind the appetite for the same from my patient. I indulge in light conservation, as it helps them to open up with me. Respectful distance with your patient is appreciated but a healthy interaction helps in their management.
Lexicon: What do you wish to be known as – a brilliant doctor or a world renowned writer?
Dr Gyan: I am a greedy person in this respect. So, my answer is both.
Lexicon: What has been the most unique problem that the patient was shared with you?
Dr Gyan: I remember one patient complaining that “when I eat, I don’t feel hungry anymore”. Well, he kept repeating it, and I had no answer or cure for the same.
Lexicon: If diseases were politicians and ministers, who would be their Prime Minister?
Dr Gyan: To manage them in the best way, a doctor would have been their Prime Minister.
Lexicon: If you were a medical agony aunt writing a column, dispensing needless advice for useless complaints, what would be the name of that column?
Dr Gyan: “Ulte ka seedha” – that if someone asked ulta (twisted) question, I would give a seedha (straight) answer. It is the rapid fire section, and I might think of a better answer later.
Lexicon: Do you get any weird requests from patients or their attendants?
Dr Gyan: It’s a common thing that while prognosticating any sick patient on ventilator with 100% oxygen support and multiple vasopressors, the final question that comes from the attendant is “will the patient be okay?”. But then, it all stems from love for the patient, and hope from a doctor. We need to tackle it in a nice way.
Lexicon: Is there is a biopic made on your life, which actor would play you?
Dr Gyan: I am flattered that you can figure me worth a biopic. I’d have to think of an actor who can play a sensitive, serious yet carefree person with a sense of humour. I don’t have such a keen eye for casting, but actors like Rajkummar Rao, Ayushmann Khurrana, Pratik Gandhi could play a character in young and old age in the same movie very well.
Lexicon: If you were to invent a new medical appliance what would that be?
Dr Gyan: I have never relied much on appliances or technology. I believe that a doctor is the best diagnostic modality. So, as has been my mantra – ‘to be correlated clinically’ shall be the name of the medical appliance.
Lexicon: If your life was to be described in a poem of 4 lines…
Dr Gyan: I cannot write such a poem spontaneously, but a poem by Naresh Saxena has governed and guided my life:
Pul par hota hai
Pul par karne se
Nadi par nahi hoti
(You cross a bridge when you cross a bridge, not a river)
The essence is that you do not experience the river when you cross a bridge. You have to get into the river to understand it. Similarly, you have to take challenges head-on to understand them and to win. Others’ experiences can only guide you.
Lexicon: Any advice for the young doctors who are reading this?
Dr Gyan: Firstly, give time to your patients and hear them out. It helps you to make a diagnosis. I always say that the first 400 pages of Harrison’s Internal Medicine book must be read by non-doctors as well.
Secondly, keep learning. Read, and try to learn daily, because even re-reading may teach you something new. An outdated doctor is no better than a qualified quack.
